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Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

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Do you think the proposed system is better for scoring?

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Total Votes : 19

Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by HCR Karma on Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:51 pm

Am just worried what happens if a host forgets. We would need to ask all in the race to protect themselves and help the process by taking pics of their own,,that way there is always a back up

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by AndyT306 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:53 pm

i'm happy to setup a demo system... and use the CTCC results as a test

unfortunately if no one in a lobby gets the times, then none of the drivers would finish, only fair way to do it

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by JVanEssen on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:34 pm

I will be on tonight if you guys want to try a test. Also I blew it in qualifying so I can host your c lobby again if needed.

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by JVanEssen on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:36 pm

Also parade lap time would need to be recorded correct?

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:54 pm

JVanEssen wrote:Also parade lap time would need to be recorded correct?

We just need to subtract the start time from the overall time. If start time was 2:50 then whatever the finishing times were...you subtract 2:50 from it for Lobby A. 2:55 from lobby B and 3:00 from lobby C.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by AndyT306 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:06 pm

Won't be a problem in series without rolling starts, they arnt always required

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:07 pm

AndyT306 wrote:Won't be a problem in series without rolling starts, they arnt always required

yes true. Wasn't sure what format the DTM would be running.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by AndyT306 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:09 pm

I'd never want to run a rolling start just for the sake of it

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:10 pm

AndyT306 wrote:I'd never want to run a rolling start just for the sake of it

Me either. Hate em.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by JVanEssen on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:14 pm

Guys Im just thinking out loud here but wouldn't the sandbagging concern be even greater if we are only looking at over all time?    I don't really get how over all time would cure that? Whats gonna get you a better time? Racing door to door with similar paced cars or hot lapping in front of a slow group?  I would think if its over all time Mad Dog could win the race from C lobby.

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:21 pm

At some point you have to trust that every driver will do their best to qualify and compete the best they can.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR Venom on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:42 pm

for the most part we would kind of know the sandbaggers as weve all raced each other. thete is that delay between lobbies too dont forget

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by AndyT306 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:44 pm

end of the day we race to have fun, if people think fun is racing alone, then they don't really belong on here... the main bonus of qualification is that it places us with racers of equal ability... to have a.... erm... RACE!

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:04 pm

exactly
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by JVanEssen on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:57 pm

Don't take me the wrong way. I am already happy the way it is currently. Met some great guys and am having a blast running where ever I can. I was more addressing the concern about sandbaggers with Andys original proposal and thought wait it could work out worse the other way.

Does anyone have the total times recorded from the first race?

I could try both scoring systems off the first race and see where and how they would work.




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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:12 am

You'd have to get the replays. I think Venom may be tinkering with this atm too.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by HaydieT on Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:42 am

I think if you're going to do a points benefit from lobbies below it should only be if there is a set amount of people & I say 8 is a good number as if you have 17 people you do 2 lobbies, one of 9 & one of 8. That way there is a benefit for people in B lobby without hampering A lobbies qualifying too much.

I don't think you can try to implement this in the CTCC as the lobbies are essentially lobbies of 5 - 7 which won't work for any other series.

If you were to do Lobby point splits, maybe give points for qualifying?

If you do it by time then there should definitely be a penalty for each lobby or also a points bonus for qualifying. If you do timing without a time penalty you can't give a fair representation of qualifying without accusing people of sandbagging if people do bad qualifying which is just going to cause tension.

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR Venom on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:21 am

heres my demo and excuse the horrible handwriting lol. the names on the left is based on current standings. the names on the right are based on total time with no time penalty enforced. same with race 2. youll see a few big position jumps. what are your thoughts.

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR Venom on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:28 am

another option. keep the total time finishing order but give a 5 second delay between lobbys like i stated before. 5 seconds for b lobby behind a lobby, and 10 seconds for c lobby behind a lobby. now to eliminate sandbagging we give 5 points for any a lobby qualifier. then 3 points for a b lobby qualifier. and 0 for c lobby. so if a guy misses qualifying hes automatically down 5 points before race has started. what yall think about this.

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR Venom on Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:42 am

or we can have top 3 of each lobby guaranteed there position. and a max of one lobby jump. i.e. if you are in c lobby and u have an awesome race and kill it the most you can get is a 4 th in b lobby. same if you are in b and smash the whole field the best you can get is 4th in a lobby?

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by JVanEssen on Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:31 am

The second suggestion seems really fair.

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:48 am

XPR Venom wrote:or we can have top 3 of each lobby guaranteed there position. and a max of one lobby jump. i.e. if you are in c lobby and u have an awesome race and kill it the most you can get is a 4 th in b lobby. same if you are in b and smash the whole field the best you can get is 4th in a lobby?

Definitely this. It'll be the future benchmark for multi lobby series scoring.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by AndyT306 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:32 pm

any calculation will have to be able to be produced using simple maths... i cannot therefore produce a table which protects the top 3 finishers

we can come up with many weird and wonderful systems, but we are not going back to the days of relying on someone to sit down and manually calculate everything, some co's may be ok to do this, but we cant expect them all to be, the co's have enough work to do

the other HUGE negative with manual calculation is the increased likelihood of error


i think a time penalty of 5 seconds for b lobby and 10 seconds for c and so forth is sufficient, this should eliminate sandbaggers as they are already at a disadvantage being in a lower lobby, however i wouldnt give any time penalty for race 2 to give a representative partial race reversal A/B/C positions are reversed, so race 1 winner starts at the back of a lobby, not c lobby

bonus points for qually are not required, and giving bonus points isn't fair when lobby sizes change in size from week to week

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by XPR ChicaiN on Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:34 pm

It will be a formula in Google docs. You just have to put in total time.
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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

Post by AndyT306 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:37 pm

yes... which i am working on for Chad to trial, but "protecting" positions gets far too complicated

AGAIN... whatever we use it has to be simple for existing and new members to use AND understand... not lead them down a path of, we have rule 1, rule 2, but rule 3 supersedes these in certain situations, and you got a bonus for this that and the other, its confusing and messy

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Re: Future Changes for XPLR - All Please Read

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